lucas magneto not sparking

When we undertake the renovation of these magnetos, we examine the following:-. Italiana Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | [email protected] in England Company No. Norsk Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil ignition systems. Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. that old problem, the deeply-buried condenser Lucas Magneto 1930 - 1940. Please phone or email for details. With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. This was examined earlier. However, dont make them lop-sided. In more modern times, insulation materials have improved to the point where constructing self-contained magnetos is relatively easy, but energy transfer systems are still used where the ultimate in reliability is required such as in aviation engines. We are unfortunately not able to offer 0000005468 00000 n If you can see the slip-ring through the pick-up hole in the main housing, check that the brass ring or segment of the slip-ring is brass coloured (albeit possibly a bit dirty or tarnished), but not completely black. With the mag on the engine, there is a spark at all 4 plugs . Thanks. (Japanese) Will It Spark? errors in the translations. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). The spark is fine on this coil, keep in mind the faster you turn a mag, the better the spark. In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. BTW, Michael, that's a darn clever trick/solution! Great write up, with video even! With other models, it may be inaccessible while the magneto is in situ, for example underneath. If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. performance. 2. However, typical signs of magneto problems are, among others: -- Bike hard to start. As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. Italiana Links to some interesting 0000001015 00000 n It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. Ensure that you have the proper gasket fitted. JavaScript is disabled. I know a great starting engine will fire a plug with 3/16" gap when external of a cylinder. 82 23 This can mask a fault on these cars as the vehicle will continue to run until the other fails. The coils are, of course, designed for this pressure but no insulation is perfect. It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on one of the cam lobes. 0000009971 00000 n The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. 0000003086 00000 n The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Gift Article. Make a note of the reading; youll need to refer to it later. You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. If you havent already done so, undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Stored in the dry. However, provided the reading is more than about 500 ohms, it is probably OK. BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. Don't want this buried as I 'm hoping for some possible answers today. Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). If necessary, dress the points on a fine stone. if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. You must log in or register to reply here. If there is a lubricating felt, soak it in oil. Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop In early magnetos the magnets were formed from a cobalt material and had to be remagnetised if the armature was ever removed. I got it back, spun it, sparked. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). If not free to move, ease it. i totally agree. With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. If your multimeter can measure capacitance, the reading should be within 10% of: 150 nF (0.15 uF) for the C01, C02, C03, C05 and CU/150 EasyCaps; 220 nF (0.22 uF) for the C06, C07 and CU/220 EasyCaps. Re-install the contact-breaker assembly, ensuring that it registers properly with the armature shaft. There is no wire hooked up to the cap. With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. These faults do not necessarily occur instantaneously, they may develop over time leading to a gradual deterioration of the spark output. Points and contacts cleaned, and wires tested for continuity. However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. In the Lucas MO1, it is on one side, adjacent the contact-breaker housing. That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open. The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. If you do, then replace the pick-up. What else could possibly be grounding this? Also, some pattern contact-breaker assemblies are too large at the fat end and need to be filed or ground to size. DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting Measure the resistance with the two probes of your multi-meter shorted together. Others have an earth brush between the main body of the magneto and an earth track of the armature. degrade with age. We recommend using non-resistive (copper) cable and unsuppressed plug caps. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. found in all rotating-coil magnetos. classic vehicles generally. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. If possible, get somebody to help. Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. If the coil has been in service since the magneto was new there is a good chance the insulation has started to break down, allowing voltage to track. further selection that can be reconditioned on grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip JVC 4VR-5436X 4 Channel Stereo Receiver Service Manual Original. 0000003162 00000 n Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' It may not display this or other websites correctly. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Norsk If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. Wrap some rag around the end of a stick about 1/4 diameter, moisten it with petrol or other cleaning fluid (but not so much that it is dripping), poke it through the pick-up hole in the magneto body, and rotate the armature to clean the slip ring. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. Check for any dirty marks on the paper. A Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty. After a full rebuild my motor started right up, rode for 5 minutes, stopped, no spark. I'm thinking the magneto is weak even though it was rebuilt with new condenser.. The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. quality are also available, of the correct Posts: 34. Translations provided by the Google If there are any, replace the pick-up. The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. troubleshooting your magneto. Housings can sometimes get misshapen, in which case try to rectify that. the brass is in the wrong place, as a result of a magneto with a segment-type slip-ring having an incorrect cam fitted or having the wrong direction of slip-ring fitted. If it is significantly lower, then there is probably a short-circuit in the contact-breaker assembly or in the armature. books, learndpapers and patents on If they look good I would replace the condenser if it has one and retest. If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them. Your mag likely has a bad condensor. Alnico, the material most often used to fabricate early magnets has a tendency to lose its induced magnetic field over time due to various causes. A second coil, with many more turns than the primary, is wound on the same iron core to form an electrical transformer. Free access to service and repair If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. Great post! (Japanese) LUCAS K1F MAGNETO RUNNING AT 1200 RPM AT THE ARMATURE. detailed guide to maintaining and With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. Or what else could be causing this? replace it with an EasyCap. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. Initially this was done because it was easier to provide good insulation for the secondary winding of an external coil than it was in a coil buried in the construction of the magneto (early magnetos had the coil assembly externally to the rotating parts to make them easier to insulateat the expense of efficiency). Contact-breaker Re-installation and Points Setting. old-style capacitor (the 'condensectomy') and If there is a difference, adjust the points so that it is the smaller gap that is 0.012 (0.3 mm). downloadable drawings for those of you who magnetos. Dansk magnetos and capacitors (for those who wish to Espaol As the magnet moves with respect to the coil, the magnetic flux linkage of the coil changes. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. After 1 hour or so the bike can be started again, but the ignition fails again after riding about 20 miles - not a pleasent way to ride! The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. (Chinese) 0000000016 00000 n Pick-up brushes of the highest The place to buy our EasyCap condensers things we think matter when it comes to magnetos and. MochetVelo 0000001569 00000 n Put a smear of grease on the lobe(s) of the cam. So I'm having an issue that is frustrating me and my mag rebuilder. From the basic to the complex - some Having set the timing with the points opening on one cam lobe, you should check that it is also correct with the points opening on the other cam lobe. Check the state of the tappet and replace if necessary. I do not know it all but I will try to help. It is also used in modern piston-engined aircraft[citation needed] (even though a battery is present), to avoid the engine relying on an electrical system. wish to make the required puller tool 0 With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. We would therefore strongly advise against ever trying to make a magneto strike a spark across a gap of anything in excess of 7.5 mm in fresh air. Any suggestions? You are probably loosing amperage through the jumper cables. commonly found on classic motorcycles. Replace the cam, ensuring that the notches in it engage as before (e.g. The last of these possible reasons is very often the cause. Capacitors are replaced with ones that have a longer life expectancy and greater reliability. All here. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. This could be because: the brush isnt projecting far enough to touch the slip ring, so check that as best you can. %PDF-1.5 % English The likely culprits are: Set the timing of the ignition in accordance with the machines handbook. and just how were you able to find one of those bastards that still worked?!?!?! Upgrade your membership to The use of ignition magnetos is now confined mainly to engines without a battery, for example in lawnmowers and chainsaws. You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing 0000005012 00000 n rectifiers (and wiring diagrams) of use to all heavier the better. This expediential degradation may appear to be sudden when the fault occurs. Some original units are still in service today. IMPORTANT. If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. A capacitor is placed across the points which absorbs the energy stored in the leakage inductance of the primary coil, and slows the rise time of the primary winding voltage to allow the points to open fully. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs Lucas Magnetos We have overhauled and repaired these Lucas magnetos and then returned them to their owners. Put it on bike, timed, no spark. The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage. In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. Sign up for a new account in our community. Check the cam surface. The reading should be substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. Check out our magneto armature winding service. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. Thanks. classic owners. 82 0 obj<> endobj As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. At any one time, we reckon to sequences illustrating the importance of I have seen that a lot on FM mags. (Chinese) Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. In this series of pages, well take you through the main things. I would narrow the plug gaps to .020" and see what happens. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. Magnetometer for measuring magnetic flux density at the centre of the armature cavity Measurement before remagnetisation Remagnetiser . I have seen several condensers during that time whichwork for the half but will not generate the field collapse andfire the plug . Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on the other cam lobe. You are using an out of date browser. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. Built into the case of the magneto are magnets, permanent magnets.

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