shapechange vs true polymorph

Can I have my friend True Polymorph into a pit fiend, let me see it, not concentrate for an hour so they turn back, and then I can do it? An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Can you choose an age category? 1.0, How to break the game with Animal Messenger (starting at level 3), AMFES: Summer 2, Now with Digital Tokens Included, 2020 Holiday Ornament and Black Friday Sale, If this is your first visit, be sure to RPGBOT contributing author and podcast co-host Random Powell is back with another exciting article, this time hey wait a minute, I can just write these myself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a polymorphed creature is never a "Huge or larger. You can effectively put away your character sheet and replace it with the stat block out of the Monster Manual. When the target of the spell reaches 0 hit points they revert back to their original form, this is true even while the permanent duration is in effect. Its certainly more exciting but also more dangerous. A disintegrated creature and everything it is wearing and carrying, except magic items, are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust. It doesn't sound like the circlet would be consumed, BUT if the spell specifically states a component and a value like this I am confident a spell focus isn't enough to cast and you would be required to wear the 1500g + jade circlet at the time of casting the spell. Would it be possible to only half transform into a monster? Who knows. The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the new form. You're also more than welcome to link to my handbook if you want extra information available in the shapechange spell description in yours. Could a subterranean river or aquifer generate enough continuous momentum to power a waterwheel for the purpose of producing electricity? It retains its alignment and personality. Otherwise, the target likely attacks the nearest enemy in combat. You are using an out of date browser. How do I stop the Flickering on Mode 13h? You, however, lose your own features and spells, and (arguably, although there isn't any rule specifying this) you'd be limited to casting non-concentration spells because technically you're concentrating on True Polymorph. It depends on how you look at it. All of that is part of the pile of dust. Thus, overpowered. When true polymorphed creature dies, does it revert to its original form? If the null hypothesis is never really true, is there a point to using a statistical test without a priori power analysis? That target almost certainly cant speak or understand speech unless its also under some other effect like Comprehend Languages. Have fun erasing the existence of every monster in the MM. * (a drop of mercury, a dollop of gum arabic, and a wisp of smoke). @DavidCoffron Cool, that clears that up! Would being ordered to fight be better or worse? Has the Melford Hall manuscript poem "Whoso terms love a fire" been attributed to any poetDonne, Roe, or other? Equipment that merges has no effect in that state. So an Archmage's Spellcasting. "The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies.". True Polymorph Concentration Level 9th Casting Time 1 Action Range/Area 30 ft Components V, S, M * Duration Concentration 1 Hour School Transmutation Attack/Save WIS Save Damage/Effect Buff (.) Just transmute a sufficiently large rock into a brontosaurus, then transmute that into, if Ive done my math right, roughly 100,000 pounds of diamond. In discussing this with Tyler, his answer was to lean heavily on the word kind. To him, kind meant species as defined by taxonomical classification, so I could choose to make you a human or a pit fiend, but not the Diviner stat block from Volos. ", @Kashir on page 14 of SA compendium Crawford provides a RAI and RAW PoV, which is why I have two answers. You can however keep using True Polymorph to turn into various creatures with spell slots, and exhaust them all. True Polymorph didn't exist before 5th edition and is an odd combination of Polymorph Any Object and Shapechange that has the notable distinction of being permanent if you can concentrate on it for the full hour. You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physically capable of doing so. While polymorphed, the targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. What's the cheapest way to buy out a sibling's share of our parents house if I have no cash and want to pay less than the appraised value. Pop out from under someone and turn into a Pit Fiend and beat the absolute tar out of them. Boy. Note that this guide currently only covers beasts presented in the monster manual. Where does the version of Hamapil that is different from the Gemara come from. It turns out we are both wrong. The creature cant activate, use, wield, or otherwise benefit from any of its equipment. This one is a little disappointing because Shapechange is way more generous about what you can do with your gear if you cast it on yourself, but given that this is also supposed to function as Uber Baleful Polymorph I guess it makes sense that you wouldnt want to let the person youre turning into a standard turtle continue wearing their Robe of the Archmagi. Now, there is a very important distinction in that paragraph. The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it cant speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech, unless its new form is capable of such actions. This site works best with JavaScript enabled. Is the caster concentration for an hour to make the TP permanent? That 88 damage just became 44 and the Concentration check DC is 22. The GM has the creatures statistics and resolves all of its actions and movement. Perhaps the most important limitation of polymorph is how it affects the targets mind. If you transform into a Marilith, you can still speak and have hands to make Somatic gestures for those types of spells. @nick012000 You say "I cast fireball" when you begin to cast fireball, not upon completing casting a fireball. 2023 Wizards. Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI. What happens when a Polymorphed creature is reduced to 0 HP by Disintegrate? by Tarven Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:13 pm, Post If we take both spells together, this seems to imply that Shapechange would allow you to turn into constructs were it not for the inclusion of the part where you cant, meaning that True Polymorph probably means that, in fact, you can. If you revert as a result of If it reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. 2023 Wizards. Especially in regards to Polymorph and Shapechange and Secret Doors. Yeahhh.. What are you talking about? You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad, Started work on a 5E OGL SRD game that might get released on Drivethrurpg.com, http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/10/11/rue-polymorph/, The Fighter (redesigned with more than swinging a weapon in mind, uses inspiration dice), The Thug (Hybrid Barbarian/Rogue) ver. Unfortunately, thats unlikely to change unless WotC gets really into more dire whatevers since the Tyrannosaurus is generally considered the biggest, chompiest dinosaur. by Nylo Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:47 pm, Post rev2023.5.1.43405. for druids in D&D. Like would a player with 17 levels of Druid and 3 levels Barbarian be able to become a CR of 17 or 20? Does the druid simply leave beast form? You cant use any special senses you have (for example, darkvision) unless your new form also has that sense. Of course, many groups will simply allow whoever got turned into a T-Rex to do as they please. You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. Has your original stat block gained the benefits of any rests you may have had in the interim? * (a jade circlet worth at least 1,500 gp, which you must place on your head before you cast the spell). Would that then let it take priority? This is as a consequence of the wizard's spell level being augmented by their character level; a level 50 wizard with grandmastered polymorph and a druid with grandmastered shapechange have precisely the same duration. Shapechange targets self, where true polymorph can target others. If it is misused, it should be addressed. I'll correct my answer. The Ancient Gold Dragon's Change Shape ability has an additional clause (emphasis mine): Its statistics and capabilities are otherwise replaced by those of the new form, except any class features or legendary actions of that form. For future readers' reference: the answer to this question changed due to the 2018 PHB errata, so the existing answers here may have been rendered inaccurate by the change. The creature can be restored to life only by means of a true resurrection or a wish spell. A disintegrated creature and everything it is wearing and carrying, except magic items, are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust. by Althasizor Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:26 pm, Post If this damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, it is disintegrated. Obviously if you aren't concentrating you don't have to worry about breaking concentration. A few last thoughts. One amusing thing you may have noticed that you cant do with True Polymorph is turn objects into other objects. What happens if I choose, for example, a golem with text in its stat block A golem cant think or act for itself? I dont have a good answer. Next paragraph: The targets gear melds into the new form. Not a gimme, but absolutely passable. Do they remain dead? Is there a difference between When you are reduced to 0 hit points and when you would be reduced to 0 hit points? What is the meaning of 'permanent' in description of True Polymorph? Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0, TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History, Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News, Wildshape Interactions with Weird Racial Features, Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to It retains its alignment and personality. This means that when your wizard polymorphs themselves into a tyrannosaurus, their Intelligence drops from 20 to 2. Worth noting though is that if you concentrate on it for the whole hour the spell becomes permanent until dispelled. This means that its not actually permanent and would cease in, for example, an Antimagic Field (temporarily), or if successfully targeted by a Dispel Magic. What does any kind you choose mean? If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. You effectively lose everything but your personality. True polymorph changes you once and that's it. Does disintegrating a polymorphed enemy still kill it after the 2018 errata? Is there any known 80-bit collision attack? It can cripple enemies, turn the caster or an ally into a ferocious beast, or provide you with utility options which are difficult to replicate without relying on numerous other spells at once. Polymorph (Creature Type) can be a unique spell. The Sage Advice Compendium supports this answer from a RAW perspective: What happens if a druid using Wild Shape is reduced to 0 hit points by disintegrate? Creature into Creature. You can't concentrate on two spells at once, at all: ". A failed save always sucks, but I'd be glad to have this up as a damage sponge if nothing else in that case (because you'd lose the concentration after taking the damage). Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange DnD 5e, Ancient Brass/Crystal/Deep/Topaz/White Dragon. Since all other creatures die at 0 HP (unless the DM makes a special case to have them follow PC rules) that shouldn't influence the above. Fully open to DM interpretation and therefore argument. I had used it, and is one of my favourite spells in the game, because you are making the saves using the new form's saving throw proficiencies, so let's put an hypotetical lets say you transform into an ancient brass dragon, that has a +13 to con savings, you would have to receive more than 28 points of damage for the dc to be higher than 14 just to make the dc for you to be able to fail it, and taking into account that the average damage a terrasque, a cr 30 monster, makes is 28 i would argue the concentration aspect is almost irrelevant. But sometimes you want to break the world in other interesting ways, and True Polymorph is a great way to do so. Make it a part of your character post campaign that they're going to experiment and make a spell that permanently changes their form to a dragon or something. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus listed in its statistics is higher than yours, use the creatures bonus in place of yours. You also maintain your mental ability scores, which is a slightly double-edged sword but at least means youre not going to hose yourself if you do turn into something dumb and burly. You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physically capable of doing so. Apparently, RAI is in opposition to my other answer per a tweet from Mr Crawford (Credit to @Airatome for this tweet): Jeremy Crawford A creature must be designatedwith a tag or other textas a shapechanger to count as one. Sorry, read the power wrong. Can a Wizard polymorph low-level PCs into over-powered beasts? The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. What is Wario dropping at the end of Super Mario Land 2 and why? I somehow have full access to its knowledge for the purpose of making it do things, but I cant use that knowledge for anything else. The creature can be restored to life only by means of a true resurrection or a wish spell. You lose too much. Last Updated: April 8, 2022 Introduction The Polymorph spell is an extremely versatile and powerful tool. RAW can creatures with Innate Spellcasting cast spells while using their Change Shape ability? The spell lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. I am making the case for Disintegrate, as a 6th level spell and it's stated effect of also destroying all of the equipment that isn't magical, being given precedence. To help with answers: is the spellcasting of an archmage a class or race feature? Passing negative parameters to a wolframscript. (That's powerful magic). With the target creature's stats in it. Ditto for Shapechange. The creatures statistics become those of the object, and the creature has no memory of time spent in this form, after the spell ends and it returns to its normal form. You transform the creature into a different creature, the creature into a non-magical object, or the object into a creature (the object must be neither worn nor carried by another creature). well that depends .. there are 2 cr 30 monsters tarrasque avarage on attacks is 24 28 32 so dc 12 14 16 all almost guaranteed pass with the stat you mentiond. This means that if you are under Polymorph, Wildshape, Shapechange, or True Polymorph, you'd trigger the "revert to your original form" condition once Disintegrate reduced you to 0 HP, and take any additional damage to your original form in excess of what it took to reduce you to zero from Disintegrate. Your scouting and combat forms may change as new options become available, but since your disable form should generally be CR 0 it probably wont change much. Outside of combat, the target is likely friendly to their allies, but is likely driven by basic animal stuff. Shapechanging You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. Speaking of, what happens if I turn someone into something with a naturally very short lifespan like a housefly? That's my take on it, though I will point out that Jeremy Crawford is a D&D dev. JavaScript is disabled. Yes, Disintegrate turns you to dust. The target is Disintegrated/Dust, because this specific case of "reducing to 0 hit points" due to this spell is unique to this spell effect, versus the general case of what happens when a creature is reduced to 0 hit points. During this spells duration, you can use your action to assume a different form following the same restrictions and rules for the original form, with one exception: if your new form has more hit points than your current one, your hit points remain at their current value. When the spell states that you take the form of "any creature with a challenge rating equal to your level or lower", does this mean the players class level, spell-caster level, or total level from all classes. You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form. At the level that this spell would come available, the damage exchanged in combat and the number of hits the new form would take would end the spell in a round or less. by Raona Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:27 pm. rev2023.5.1.43405. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. So what level of authenticity is required? Worth noting is that shapechange -does- last longer than polymorph currently(EDIT: It doesn't. All of this detail diving violates KISS principle, which is why I tried to focus on the "spell effect" and its unusual " and your equipment too" detail as significant. #DnD Shapechange is more of a solo-featured spell while True Polymorph can affect others in the party and allow you to change objects and creatures. This links in to the "what happens when you are reduced to 0 HP" rule. by Selveem Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:00 am, Post I think it goes off of the players total level, so in your example, they would be able to become a CR 20. depends on the DM's decision of whether they would be considered a construct or something more unique I suppose. Thats the literal interpretation of the rules So then. a lvl 20 can potentially shapechange into an Ancient Brass Dragon. given that they've seen one before? #DnD Jeremy Crawford If you're concentrating on one spell, and you cast another concentration spell, when exactly does the first spell end? Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. Are animated things like Golems and Strangling Rugs creatures since they have stat blocks and therefore fair game, or are they magic items and therefore verboten? Manage Settings Druids have the Wild Shape feature, and although numerous textual references refer to this ability, at no point (that I can find) are they specifically called "shapechangers". Spellcasting is a class feature, and the rule on components (PH, 203) says what is physically required to cast spells. Others won't. Theres nothing really surprising here, although one thing can be a bit confusing. The spell lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. The new form can be of any creature with a challenge rating equal to your level or lower. Obviously the chain gets broken if they fail a Concentration saving throw, but they'd get the Adult Gold Dragon's Legendary Resistance to help them out, there - and it'd get reset every time they True Polymorph themselves, too. As a result, this question has been closed as a duplicate of another question that asks how these 2 spells interact as of the 2018 errata. This spell has no effect on a shapechanger or a creature with 0 hit points. Each of these things is a specific difference and considering the WotC lawyer speak writing of spells and actions and the various errata that they change over time (learned over years of writing the rules on Magic cards), I do not believe there is an intent to be vague. Immediate vagueness problems. As long as the excess damage doesnt reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you arent knocked unconscious. As soon as you begin casting the second spell, the first breaks and its effects, including your new form, end. You turn back into a lvl 17+ Wizard. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Why favor Disintegrate? Shapechange gives more cheesy options, like a Pit Fiend bladesinging, with shield spell mastery. I also go into some of the pitfalls and point out where vague wording can be problematic so that you can hopefully work out what these spells can and cant do before you cast them. Got to agree, thanks for that. Disintegrate and Polymorph both have effects that happen when the subject is reduced to 0 hit points. There is some tension between this spell's result at 0 HP and the other shape changing methods. For example, if you transformed into a Drow Matron Mother, you would not gain access to her ability to cast spells or her spell list - you'd still have your own spells and spell slots, however. Speaking of gold, this is an even better way of breaking economies than Wish, which is impressive. and perceive the original form of a Shapechanger or a creature that is transformed by magic. Allies may need to use Animal Handling to direct the target (they are a best now, after all). Most GMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws. As a kill spell, this is incredible functionality, although we run into suddenly needing to know things like how many hitpoints a 5ft cube of rock has because, once again, reducing the block to 0 hitpoints will end the spell. @BlueMoon93 Thanks, not sure if I can revive it; this is a good example of why it is important to avoid a link without a summary/sample of what's there. Autumn is a second spring where every leaf has its turn to be a flower. Unless the target was already animal-level intelligence (a familiar, a pet dog, etc. True Polymorph didnt exist before 5th edition and is an odd combination of Polymorph Any Object and Shapechange that has the notable distinction of being permanent if you can concentrate on it for the full hour. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Creature into Object. You may also want to read the Shapechange and True Polymorph spell descriptions, but understand Polymorph is more important since it is more limited, and once you grasp Polymorph you should be able to apply that knowledge to other spells. You can only speak if the creature can normally speak. Its unclear what happens when you revert: has time passed for your body? What, that guy? If a dragon under my control uses Change Shape to turn into an Evoker, can I choose the Evoker's race, and benefit from its racial traits? Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. That's actually a perfect point and suddenly perma TP is valuable again. In contrast, the intent (RAI) is that a druid isnt considered to be Per @Airatome's comment on Mr Crawford's tweet: I can't find a way to bring up the ENTIRE conversation, but it was noted this applies to Polymorph target's as well. The Polymorph would not be able to reverse the disintegration spell since it isn't a True Resurrection Spell, or a Wish Spell. Dragon Breath Weapons are NOT a guarantee to drop this because you forget that you can save for 1/2. In theory you should last at least 3 or 4 rounds as the creature in question (if it has Legendary Resistance) and in that time, you should be able to mess some stuff up. The target assumes the hit points of its new form, and when it reverts to its normal form, the creature returns to the number of hit points it had before it transformed. why is there a tissue shortage 2022, resting meat in beurre monte, how to check the status of my sc cwp,

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