351 winchester vs 30 carbine

Made from premium-grade, vegetable-tanned leather, the Burdette Custom Holsters Detective SA-35 holster is a custom outside-the-waistband (OWB) model for the Springfield Armory SA-35 semi-automatic pistol. Both cartridges use an unusual bullet diameter (.352 and .406 respectively), but its still possible to find soft point, FMJ, or cast lead bullets to use for reloading. Both the Legend and the .30-30 are most comfortable in the medium-to-large-game category, but the .30-30 offers a slightly wider array of bullet weights and applications. Its said that the French used it in World War I, but it probably didnt see much action. [6] (The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for use in pistols.) Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351 *I have mentioned before that it is in fact theItalians who claimed the prize of first intermediate caliber to be adopted as standard issue, with their long but still very much intermediate 7.35x51mm round. THE USUAL CRACKS IN THE FORE END. Mag. There are photos of hunters taking a polar bear with a 357 Mag revolver! ANTIQUE MADE IN 1891. Its not a long-range powerhouse by any means, but it can be loaded with more aerodynamic .30-caliber bullets that offer higher ballistic coefficients (BC). With overall 50% blue mixing to dark brown patina. From my collection Winchester 1894. I have a 35 wsl and am going to pick up a 351 wsl next week. But they are so few in number that no general conclusion can be drawn from them. Another article, said at first Winchester wanted to use the 32 WSL for WW2, but military brass wanted 30 caliber, so Winchester designed the 30 Carbine, still popular today. Winchester also produced a load firing a 250 grain bullet at 1,870 feet per second (1,942 ft-lbs of energy). from a 20 inch rifle barrel, which is lower than any .30-30 load published in the Winchester ammo catalog. *We Never share your email without your permission. In most Caliber Battles, one cartridge clearly offers more power and velocity across a range of loads and bullet weights. [2], While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. Commonly known asthe Model 07, the Model 1907 rifle was also popular for law enforcement use. I have fired them all except the .22waiting for some ammo. I would also expect it to handle anything in North America from deer to the big bears. Show Only with Pictures 351 winchester for sale on GunsAmerica. Buy a 351 winchester By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. Please email us if you have questions about any of our product listings. I did read a article that said in the 1920s, the military tried experimented using a Remington model 1908 in 25 Remington and soldiers liked shooting it as compared to bolt action 30-06. M44/Carbine; Mini-14 Type; Model 77; RWS Rifles; S Misc Rifles; Saiga Rifles. Hard to find here in Canada. . As illustrated in the chart, .30 M1 Carbine rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1990 feet per second (fps) while .30-30 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2370 fps. sam be yourself net worth; used robalo boats for sale by owner; nolin lake ponderosa homes for sale; neville staple wife; university of miami pay grade scale c111 all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. Another $300. They dont have that coveted NATO designation. .351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL, .351 SL) - CHUCKHAWKS.COM However, the calibers available in the Model 1905, the .32 Self Loading (.32 SL) and the .35 Self Loading (.35 SL), were realistically pretty underpowered for satisfactory use on big game. Cumpston, Mike, "The .30 Carbine Blackhawk: Ruger's Enduring Dark Horse", "CARTRIDGE AND CHAMBER DRAWINGS CENTERFIRE RIFLE", "Rimless cartridges, Calibres of rifled long centre fire weapons for rimless cartridges", "BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch:: .357 Mag Results", "Liberator's Truimphal March Through An Ecstatic Island", "The .30 Carbine Blackhawk: Ruger's Enduring Dark Horse", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.30_Carbine&oldid=1152171899, Winchester Repeating Arms Company cartridges, Articles with failed verification from July 2020, Pages using infobox firearm cartridge with unknown parameters, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 28 April 2023, at 17:05. the barrel, receiver. The first cartridges were made by turning down rims on .32SL cases and loading with .308 caliber bullets which had a similar profile to those of the U.S. military .45 ACP bullets. Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. The 35 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 38-40 ballistics. Considerations for Handloading World War II-Vintage Rifle Ammunition They would probably still be around today. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180 grain jacketed soft point (JSP), round nose bullets. As commercially successful as the Winchester Model 1907 and the .351 Winchester Self-Loading were, Winchester was still not quite satisfied. It is capable of driving a. The .350 Legend has some catching up to do if it wants to rival its 127-year-old predecessor. For that reason, Winchester decided to build what would become the biggest brother to the preceding lines of self-loaders and the only one that truly was capable of taking big game or of competing on equal terms with Remingtons recently introduced Model 08. Many have complained about the cartridges themselves saying that they were way under powered and useless and only good for squirrels to coyotes, they must be talking about the 22LR. Single trigger 14.25 LOP with Winchester red recoil pad. After two years of development, Winchester did beat Remington to market with the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. IMO, any of them would be a good choice. In that year, the .308 Winchester replaced the .30-06 Springfield in American military arsenals, and the NATO version of the Winchester, the 7.62x51mm, is still in service around the world. The performance of cartridges paled in comparison to the .32 Remington (170gr bullet at 2,180fps for 1,794 ft-lbs of energy) and .35 Remington (200gr bullet at 2,080fps for 1,922ft-lbs of energy) cartridges Remington introduced with their new autoloading rifle, the Remington Model 8. What is the going price of an original box of 351 ammo. I have quite a bit of money into these guns now but I have one of each. Reply. Back in the day, shooters were just transitioning from black powder to smokeless powder. MADE IN 1911. Hopefully the forearm wood isn't splintered up. Federal does not market any of their .350 Legend options as elk cartridges. A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. However, as a bottleneck cartridge, the .30-30 has a slight advantage at longer ranges. This is the Winchester 61 chambered in .22LR Long Rifle with a blued metal with a length of 23 1/2in. A well known gun writer implied that had the M1 carbine been chambered for the 351 cartridge origianlly it would have been a far better battle rifle. Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351 One would think the 32WSL, 35 WSL, 351 WSL and 401 WSL would still be in use today. Still, I hope its clear how closely these cartridges stack up. The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber (7.62mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. It can be found, and reloading it should not be a problem. Mag. The .356 Win. Rifle Ammunition For Sale In Bulk Quantity - Outdoor Limited You might already know this. If you had to pick the sexiest cartridges of the last decade, youd run through quite a few before you hit the .270 Winchester or .243 Winchester. In some ways, the United States military decided this Caliber Battle in 1957. I think if enough people went online and contacted Winchester and Hornady, and asked them to make up a run of ammo in 351 WSL and 401 WSL in 20 round boxes, perhaps they would make a limited run. The 401 WSL would seem to have been a good choice for a large caliber AR 15, but they came out with the 450 Bushmaster instead. 7677 Winchester Model 94AE, 30-30, NRA limited to 500, engraved Deer on receiver Adjustable rear s Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester. Mossberg .22 LR models 340 340A 340B 340M 342 342K 344 344K 346K 346B 350 350K 351 352 352K 353 Rifl Winchester mod. With these requirements in hand, Winchester's Edwin Pugsley chose to design the cartridge with a .30 caliber, 100120 grain bullet at a velocity of 2,000 feet per second (610m/s). The .401 WSL fired a 200 grain .406caliber soft point bullet at 2,140 feet per second for a walloping 2,034 ft-lbs of energy. Particularly not with all of the various chamberings and uppers you can get on the AR platform these days. from a 20-inch barrel. In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. Mag. Why the .35 Rem. I had Clay at prophet river in Alberta bring in 22 ;auto ammo for my 1903 22sl, they work good and are a run that Aquila runs once a year I believe, I ended up buying at least 800 or more rounds. America's Rejected Caliber | An Official Journal Of The NRA I wonder if some army brass had a 32-20 lever action rifle and thought that a semi auto rifle in 30 caliber would be good for combat? To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. By comparison, the .30-06 M2 cartridge for M1 Garand rifle fired a ball bullet weighing 152 grains (9.8 g) at a muzzle velocity of 2,805ft/s (855m/s) and 2,655ftlbf (3,600 joules) of muzzle energy. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. GUNS Magazine Winchester Model 1907 - GUNS Magazine is on the threatened list, this one is on a path to extinction. Other firms and individual designers submitted several carbine designs, but most prototypes were either unreliable or grossly off the target weight of five pounds. The 32 Winchester Self-Loading Cartridge is the parent case for the 30 Carbine. Overall, the .30 Carbine is a round that is historically important, but not terribly ballistically relevant to the modern discussion of personal defense weapon ammunition. Very well cared for rifle, there is a barely noticable very small chip in the stock .Click for more info. WOOD HAS A REPAIR AT THE WRIST. Does anyone know if any gunsmith ever converted a 30 Carbine to 32 WSL? It went through 1,232 rounds without incident. 351 Winchester Self/ Loading 12 HRN390552 19 LEE90004 15 LY7738055 19 RCBS09219 5 RED11005 Prices have skyrocketed on the Models 05, 07, 10. [6] But for the handloader who has taken the time to replace the recoil spring and buffer in the Winchester Model 1907, the .351 SL can be loaded to its original velocities. The .351 SL cartridge used an unusual bullet diameter of .351 instead of the .357 or .358 more commonly used in .35-caliber rifle cartridges. The leadership at Winchester realized that a large untapped market existed for the winner of the autoloader race, so they were determined to beat Remington to the punch and release their self-loading rifle first. All we do know for sure is that it was either Howe or Whelen, or both, who necked the .30-06 Sprg. If you match the bullet to the game, this is one of the all-time great hunting cartridges. Know those parts well. Hornady Custom: 2018 fps. Which cartridge comes out on top in this battle of old school vs. new? At the same time though, the Remington Model 8 also kicks a lot more than you would expect considering the rather mild calibers they were chambered for. In 1965 Remington took it to the next level with the introduction of the Model 600 Magnum Carbine. It is built on an aluminum- NO NYC, CT buyers please send us FFL or State Permit. features a Weaver K 2.5 scope. That version is in some dispute, with evidence that Whelen himself developed the cartridge or at least worked with Howe on its development. Auction (19) zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. The M1 used an unusual gas-operated system designed for a special .30 caliber cartridge. Where carbine fire had proven killing effect, approximately 95 percent of the time the target was dropped at less than 50 yards. The 10mm Auto semi auto pistols is being used to hunt deer and wild hogs, and it equals the 35 WSL ballistics. 26" barrels with F A near flawless vintage Voere Nato Imperial control round feed Mauser bolt action made in Austria. Own and shoot both. My pick by far is the 30 carbine for all the previous listed reasons. However, the .401 Winchester Self-Loading, which was itself proceeded by the .351 Winchester Self-Loading, and the Winchester Model 1907 and 1910 rifles that fired those cartridges, all filled those roles many decades before anyone ever heard of the 10mm Auto,the AR-15, or the Ruger Mini-14. 351 winchester for sale and auction. Upon firing, the breechblock is delayed in its opening by its weight and spring pressure until the rising chamber pressure overcomes the inertia of the bolt. That higher BC allows the .30-30 to maintain a flatter trajectory and buck the wind more effectively. Upon its release, the Legend was marketed as a light-recoiling cartridge, and the .30-30 is also well-known as a good option for the recoil-sensitive. First year gun, manufactured in 1939, Pre-WWII. Dubbed by Winchester as the "fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world," the 350 Legend certainly seems to be designed to fill a particular role in those states which limit big-game hunters to straight-walled rifle cartridges. We don't use the same bullets for 30-30 Win and .308 Win and 7.62x39mm. The .35 Rem. Its a good time to own a rifle chambered in the .350. in a rimmed cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle. SMOOTH PATINA METAL WITH GOOD WOOD AND A NICE BORE. Still, the .30 Carbine is a round that has taken considerable criticism for its lack of performance, so its worthwhile to take a look at exactly how it does in comparison to other rounds used for the same purpose: Here we see pretty much exactly what wed expect: A round that starts out quite admirably thanks to its goodvelocity and energy, but which tends to underperform at range due to its dumpy ballistic coefficient. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. Realistically, the Winchester Model 1905 was only useful to control vermin around the farm or for taking small game. The first design was further modified for Winchester's second prototype, adopted September 30, 1941 as the Carbine Caliber .30, M1. Therefore, the M1 carbine is significantly less powerful than the M1 Garand. Note: some of the links below are affiliate links. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today. 300 blackout. Back in 1983 Winchester introduced the .356 Win. .351 Winchester Self-Loading - Wikipedia were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win., .30-30 Win. Thats a question I just dont understand. As illustrated in the chart, .243 Winchester rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 3180 feet per second (fps) while .30 M1 Carbine rounds travel at a velocity of 1990 fps. and the 6.5 mm Rem. Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. With decent ammo most military M1 Carbines in good condition will average 3 to 5 inches for five shots at 100 yards. WOOD HAS A REPAIRED CRACKS BUT IS SOLID. Make sure you subscribe toThe Big Game Hunting Podcastand follow The Big Game Hunting Blog onFacebook,Instagram,Twitter, andYouTube. The Plainfield Machine Company (later taken over by Iver Johnson's Arms) sold a sporting rifle copy of the M1 carbine chambered for this cartridge but only about 500 were made. Both clock in around 9 foot-pounds of energy, about half as much as a .308 Winchester. Mag. This gun has a story. It was designed to improve the range and stopping power of the M1 carbine. The Rifle In America (p728, 730-731, & 733) was used as a referencefor the history of the cartridges discussed as well as their ballistic data. Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .30 M1 Carbine round averages out to 960 ft-lb, while a .30-30 Winchester round averages out to about 1890 ft-lb. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. Even today it occupies a strange halfway point between pistol and rifle cartridges, being similar in design to a long pistol round or magnum revolver round with its straight-walled case and round-nosed bullet, but loaded with rifle powders designed for the 18 barrel of the handy little M1 Carbine. Normal jacketed bullet weight was 180 grains and factory ballistics had it moving at about 1,800 fps. cartridgethe .351 Winchester Self-Loadingthat was substantially longer and more powerful than its .35-cal. I'm kind of surprised the .351 wasn't made originally to use .357 bullets, since that bore size had already been established by that point. Yet, that bore diameter produces some of the best hunting cartridges available. The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Trigger Housing Group M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. GI#: 102196509. I read Thompson made a experimental rifle in 351 WSL. In fact, as Speckin explains, the whole series of Winchester Self-Loaders were designed as smokeless semiautomatic analogs for the saddle carbine role. Any series covering this topic would be incomplete without a look at the round, however! Due to its blowback action, the rifle kicks like a mule. Winchester BismuthReview: Your Complete Guide, Best Hunting Rifle Slings Ultimate Guide [2023], 25-06 vs 30-06 Springfield Review & Comparison, 6.5 Grendel vs 300 Blackout Review & Comparison, 11 Reasons The Leupold VX-6HD Is An Outstanding Hunting Scope, 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 Review & Comparison, 28 Nosler vs 300 Win Mag Review & Comparison, Best 22 Hornet Ammo For Hunting Coyotes, Bobcats, & Other Varmints, 15 Best African Hunting Books For When Youre Dreaming Of Being On Safari[2023], Best 350 Legend Ammo For Hunting Deer, Hogs, Bear, & Other Game, Best 6.8 Western Rifles for Hunting Ultimate Guide [2023]. According to a recent Federal Emergency Management Agency report, fewer people are "prepping" today compared to previous years. The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. During WW2, when army brass asked Winchester to make up a light, handy rifle to replace 1911 pistols, Winchester wanted to use either the 351 WSL or 32 WSL, but army brass wanted a 30 caliber. Loved by gun guys and rejected by the huddled masses, this is perhaps the most underappreciated cartridge of them all. This makes sense: the Legend was developed specifically for use in Midwestern whitetail states that require straight-wall cases. too. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. The .35 Rem. Jordan Sillars Feb 3, 2021. Every competition has a winner, but the truth is, youre unlikely to notice much difference from the whitetail stand. Buy 3, however, or any 3 non gun non ammo items, and shipping is Free on the entire order. This is the Winchester model 1906 .22 LR pump action 20 in. can drive the same weight bullet a bit faster. would follow that tradition. It would cost into the 800dollar range just to rebuild one. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. Winchester only sold about 29,000 Model 1905 rifles from 1905 to 1923. The 1907 is designed with a short barrel, and completely . If we compare the .300 Win. .35 Remington: Ultimate Guide To What You Need To Know The same probably goes for the AR-15 when they think of a semi auto police patrol rifle. The loud blast is the most oft-mentioned characteristic of the .30 Carbine cartridge when fired in a handgun.[10]. and is a good cartridge for hunting the thick woods for deer, hogs, black bear or even elk. Its safe to say that your local sporting goods store is more likely to stock the .30-30 Winchester than the .350 Legend. Not willing to pay the current prices - just yet. As a result, it has approximately 41% higher muzzle velocity with 27% more impact energy than the parent .32 WSL cartridge. In firearms with a blowback action like the Model 1903, the breech is not locked and depends on a balance between the cartridge pressure characteristics, the heavy breechblock, and a powerful recoil spring for reliable functioning. All Types (1000+) Folks tend to duck when they hear the slide action put into play!! Yeah. you can refer to it as "self loading" instead of semi auto and still have that "special feeling". is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. 26" Barrel. Area Code: 715. It should come as no small comfort for any patriotic American to know that the countrys firearm industry is vibrant and productive, still faithfully serving the needs of armed citizens, law-enforcement officers and military personneljust as it has for more than two centuries. You want to look for a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm. .30-30 Win, .35 Rem, .351 WSL, a.o., sizes. . After reading about the Winchester self loaders, I decided to look online to get more information and see what I could find out, It seems like most writers complain about the Winchester self loaders action, but this was a new product. As of 2017, Hawk bullets still makes .351 jacketed expanding bullets with jackets of appropriate thickness.[7]. During that time, Winchester produced over 49,000 rifles, including over 8,000 produced during World War I and World War II. The two really dont compare. Jim in Idaho #7914589 07/19/13. LENGTH OF MAGAZINE 5.99? Classic Police Self-Loaders: Model 8 Versus Model 1907 The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. An M1 carbine design adapted to a rimless .357 Magnum round would be pretty neat but I can't see there being a big market for it today.

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